The Act of Deception
Inspired by reading a post on Mire's blog, and from my purchase today of a new vacuum cleaner, I thought an interesting subject of discussion would center on the issue of deception.
Many of us in blogsville assume that the people with whom we are communicating are who they say they are, and carry forward with them the values, morals and beliefs which they describe on their posts. At least this is what I assume, although in some instances, I have had my doubts, but being a fairly good judge of character, I am usually right about people. There exists another type of deception, however, one towards the self and one towards others.
For example, my vacuum cleaner broke today. My intent was to replace the belt, as this is what my husband told me was needed. When I arrived at the shop, I was told it was not the belt that was broken, but the hose, and that it was a discontinued part. What was my remedy? To buy a new vacuum. After negotiating on the price, I did leave the store with a new vacuum. When I came home, my husband asked me how much it cost, and, true to my usual form, I deflated the price. It made me think that when I buy anything, rarely am I honest about how much I really pay for it with my husband. A confession of sorts is in order, as I love to shop, and if the truth be told, I can be known to spend way too much money. Feeling the need to support Israel, I buy many items from there and pay high prices to have them shipped. My husband's argument is why do you have to buy these things in the first place? Nevertheless, it made me think that about this on-going issue of deflation of prices and how it was a form of deception.
Sometimes, I also deceive myself, spinning my wheels, and feelings as if I am having a productive work day, when in reality, I am just not putting in the time necessary to do what is needed to get the job done. (although I have never missed a filing deadline, thank God.)
Here is the question of the day: Is there a difference between self-deception and deception towards others? Are some forms of deception worse than others? For example, is it the same to be dishonest about the price of something towards one's spouse, as opposed to cheating on him/her or in the end is deception, standing alone, an act that speaks for itself? What do you think is a lesser form of deception? Towards self or towards others?
Thank you for your minds.
Many of us in blogsville assume that the people with whom we are communicating are who they say they are, and carry forward with them the values, morals and beliefs which they describe on their posts. At least this is what I assume, although in some instances, I have had my doubts, but being a fairly good judge of character, I am usually right about people. There exists another type of deception, however, one towards the self and one towards others.
For example, my vacuum cleaner broke today. My intent was to replace the belt, as this is what my husband told me was needed. When I arrived at the shop, I was told it was not the belt that was broken, but the hose, and that it was a discontinued part. What was my remedy? To buy a new vacuum. After negotiating on the price, I did leave the store with a new vacuum. When I came home, my husband asked me how much it cost, and, true to my usual form, I deflated the price. It made me think that when I buy anything, rarely am I honest about how much I really pay for it with my husband. A confession of sorts is in order, as I love to shop, and if the truth be told, I can be known to spend way too much money. Feeling the need to support Israel, I buy many items from there and pay high prices to have them shipped. My husband's argument is why do you have to buy these things in the first place? Nevertheless, it made me think that about this on-going issue of deflation of prices and how it was a form of deception.
Sometimes, I also deceive myself, spinning my wheels, and feelings as if I am having a productive work day, when in reality, I am just not putting in the time necessary to do what is needed to get the job done. (although I have never missed a filing deadline, thank God.)
Here is the question of the day: Is there a difference between self-deception and deception towards others? Are some forms of deception worse than others? For example, is it the same to be dishonest about the price of something towards one's spouse, as opposed to cheating on him/her or in the end is deception, standing alone, an act that speaks for itself? What do you think is a lesser form of deception? Towards self or towards others?
Thank you for your minds.
posted by BarbaraFromCalifornia at
12:02 PM
16 Comments:
Yeah. I think most of us have deflated a price when talking to a spouse...
Not that that makes it right.
I personally don't think that's as bad as being unfaithful. Being sexually, sensually and emotionally faithful is much more central to a marriage. Most marriage vows include something about being (sexually) faithful; few people vow not to deflate prices of purchases.
Probably many vows say "I'll be honest with you", and so deflating prices is wrong, along with other dishonesty. But it's a little less central to what makes a marriage work. At least in my opinion.
I know that if Me Wonder Woman Pez said to me, "I have a confession. That blouse actually cost $100, not $30", I'd be touched that she told me the truth. Maybe I'd tease her about it at a later time.
That would NOT be my reaction if she confessed to (sexual) infidelity! I'd be crushed.
You are a great thinker aral!
I admire your distinctions and you are right in that there are various levels of honesty.
At least with me, I must confess that I am ALWAYS deflating prices. Rarely am I honest about them. For a long time, I bought all black clothing thinking my husband could not tell the difference in what was being purchased by me. Finally, he figured it out.
I am glad you added some intelligent insight to this issue.
And as an added bonus, it does make me feel a bit better.
So you know, I told my husband the vaccum cleaner was $35 less than I paid for it. There. Honest.
I deflate prices too. I admit it, and I'm trying to be more honest about things, especially since I know that my husband feels that if you'd like about something small, you might lie about something much bigger: Where does it end?
Still, it's hard for me when I really want to avoid an argument over something that seems so trivial--to me.(I wouldn't spend LARGE sums of cash without asking!)And I do think that there are times when it's okay to be deceptive, but only when you truly have your partner's best interests at heart. Not providing full disclosure about one's dating history prior to marriage, for example--not needed, won't help.
I agree with Aral that fidelity is the biggie.
Certainly fidelity would be the biggie. While I understand Ekim's thinking that little lies might lead to big lies, I don't think that small lies or deceptions necessarily work that way.
Nod tends to be overly, bluntly honest, and I've tried to get him to think about what the other person might feel afterwards. He's asked me if I wanted him to lie and I've said that maybe he doesn't have to say EVERYthing that he's thinking.
As for spending - it's hard for me to hide what I spend, but I admit to spending more at the coffeehouse than he'll ever know. But I'm talking $3 at a time - well, okay, I guess over the years that HAS amounted to a good bit ... hmmm.
The main reason that I dont tell my husband prices, is because he has no idea the real costs of things. I buy most of his clothes, and he would be shocked to learn the real cost. But infidelity for me is a no brainer, once a cheater always a cheater. I feel so sad for those poor souls that stay with someone that cheats, that person doesnt truly care about you because if they did, they wouldnt have cheated!!
Once you *start* exagerating anything, you're being dishonest with your lover and dishonesty erodes trust, thus undermining your vows and leads you to divorce.
Now, if you're like me, you started exagerating when you were, like, 2 months old, so you have nothing to worry about. Your spouse *knows* you embellish because you always have. The slippery slope of splitsville is no longer a threat.
Don`t think underpricing is a crime, Barbara, probably a lot more common than you think....done it a few times myself!
Like you, always felt guilty about it, but in every other way, I tell my partner the truth....I`m not bright enough to do big lies...I`d get caught!!
Many good points here.
But what about the subject of self-deception? That is to say, what if you claim to be something you are not? Or as some would say, are just fooling yourself? Is that a lesser or larger form than deceiving others?
Well, First: I deflate prices to the husband. I pay all the bills, so mostly I just don't tell what we spend and he doesn't ask. But when we were young, I deflated prices all the time. Hey, he deserved it 'cause he would whimper and whine about it.
No cheating allowed. That's a given.
Self deception is a mistake. But we all do it. Is it worse than deceiving others? I don't think WORSE, just different. Oh! it is more dangerous I guess. I don't know. Heck. You've made me THINK again! I hope you're proud of yourself.
Hmmm, interesting...I think I`ve lived with my partner so long now, that he knows me too well, warts and all, as they say. I wouldn`t get away with pretending to be anything other than myself.
As regards fooling myself, this is a pretty hard wee City I live in, they say here that "people are not backward at being forward", and I have too many close friends who think nothing of speaking their mind on any topic, no matter how personal, it`s like that here!
So if I did try to fool myself, I wouldn`t fool them, and they would be fairly fast off the mark in telling me!!...In no uncertain terms!
There`s an old Scottish saying...
"O Whit a gift fur G-d tae gie us..
tae see oorsels as ithers see us"
Friends feel it`s their duty to give opinions about your life and personality, a lot!
And I`m used to it! You get to be thick-skinned here!
Personally, I wish I could fool myself into being wealthy and not so behind in work right now!
Actually, there`s agood example of what you were asking Barbara, because I just fooled myself in my last comment!
Yes, I would probably like to think that I am thicker-skinned than I really am....but sometimes a friends comment hits home, and bothers me.
For example, a friend who I haven`t seen in ages dropped in and said.."you`ve put on weight"....he was right, I have put on 5lbs...I have been eating salads and using low sugar in my tea all week since.
Why?...no idea...except that he said it in a disaproving way, and I thought that because I am small, it must look more than it is.
My partner has told me not to be silly, but now I have convinced myself to lose the 5lbs.
So, I did fool myself, friends comments do get through the skin that perhaps isn`t as thick as I would like it to be.
For me self deception is far more dangerous than deception towards others. It's when I lie to myself it's even easier to lie to others.
My hubby has a mind like a steal trap and so it is always much easier to just stay completely honest about everything. Little lies can and will come back and bite me in the butt.
Now, white lies about birthday gifts and such? I tell those all the time. Otherwise he would never be suprised!
Sometimes, like Tan Lucy Pez observed, small deceptions can actually smooth the process and make things easier to deal with. I suppose it has to be taken on a case by case basis. It is very easy to make sweeping rules that forbid all deceptions but the truth is that not all deceptions are created equally. Sometimes we lie to be kind and there is nothing wrong with that.
Now, being unfaithful to a spouse? That is a whole other level of deception. There is nothing kind about it, it isn't done to smooth the edges of marital interactions it is self serving and cruel.
Great thought provoking topic and I love the Scottish proverb.
I believe that self deception and the deceiving of others are ultimately inseparable.
Can one be certain of the reasoning behind deceiving another?
I too sometimes deflate the cost of something when telling people how much I spent, as I sometimes am a compulsive shopper, and buy things at a higher price than i should have!!
Such deception is definitely not as bad as other deceptive practices people engage in, especially since no other person gets hurt in the process!!
Also, sometimes being deceptive to protect somebody, or to keep the peace is OK, and even commendable at times in the Jewish religion!!
As far as cheating on a spouse............ I dont thik this is the place for me to address this issue. ;-)
Peace!
NJ from NJ
I've got 3 words for you Barbara: Separate checking accounts. :-) Peace! KM
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