Is it possible that Jesus was Gay?
While relaxing and soaking up the rays in the Miami sun, I had much time to keep my brain from stimulation, except when taking my long walks, when usually new topics would percolate, and be a sorce of stimulation and interest to me.
As you can see from the post below, I had an opportunity to spend some time with my relatives in Miami who are very religious Jews. We were talking about various subjects, and reading as well. I began to think about Jesus. As many of you know, I do not view Jesus as the son of God, but more like a prophet or Rabbi of his time. This subject has been exhausted in past posts, and many have responded with stimulating discussion and conversation.
We know that Jesus was an Orthodox Jew. In fact, it may be argued that his brand of Judaism, at the time, was in the form of what we may consider as conservative or reform Judaism today, that is to say, he was trying to present something outside the traditional fold and realm of Jewish law. We know that he was in his thirties, when he died, lived with his mother, and according to most accounts (there are exceptions) was unmarried. Most male Jews of that time were married by the time they reached their early twenties. We also know that Jesus was a tolerant and loving person.
Here is the question of the day: Is it possible that Jesus was gay or homosexual? Is there any historical evidence to support or deny this premise? I ask this question with the utmost respect and dignity towards everyone. Actually, his being homosexual may, in my mind, explain why he turned away from Orthodox Judaism and also give some credence to his own unique brand of love and tolerance. What do you think?
Thank you for your minds.
As you can see from the post below, I had an opportunity to spend some time with my relatives in Miami who are very religious Jews. We were talking about various subjects, and reading as well. I began to think about Jesus. As many of you know, I do not view Jesus as the son of God, but more like a prophet or Rabbi of his time. This subject has been exhausted in past posts, and many have responded with stimulating discussion and conversation.
We know that Jesus was an Orthodox Jew. In fact, it may be argued that his brand of Judaism, at the time, was in the form of what we may consider as conservative or reform Judaism today, that is to say, he was trying to present something outside the traditional fold and realm of Jewish law. We know that he was in his thirties, when he died, lived with his mother, and according to most accounts (there are exceptions) was unmarried. Most male Jews of that time were married by the time they reached their early twenties. We also know that Jesus was a tolerant and loving person.
Here is the question of the day: Is it possible that Jesus was gay or homosexual? Is there any historical evidence to support or deny this premise? I ask this question with the utmost respect and dignity towards everyone. Actually, his being homosexual may, in my mind, explain why he turned away from Orthodox Judaism and also give some credence to his own unique brand of love and tolerance. What do you think?
Thank you for your minds.
28 Comments:
That might also explain the tradition that Catholic religious leaders have accepted on themselves in forbidding women and abusing young boys.
I've wondered if he was either gay, or really married (or otherwise attached) to Mary Magdalene.
Oye, Rock! Very creative.
I did not mean to insult the Orthodox, only to show that change, whether we want it or not, may occur.
I have never thought of Jesus as gay, but I feel that he and mary Magdalene were married and had kids. This fact was buried deep into history due to Christanity's hatred of womyn.
When I was 18 I tried telling my Irish-Catholic Nana that Jesus was black. I thought she would disown me. I said "Nana, how many white guys live in the Middle East?" which she couldn't reply to. She then launched into a tiraid about how he had red hair--strikingly like her own children.
During that same converstation I told her he was a carpenter and a Jew. She didn't believe me on either point. I've never brought it up again.
I can only imagine her reaction if I said he was gay. Oy!
I see speculating on such things futile--he's been dead for 2000+ years and we'll never know the answers to impossible questions.
Niobium,
Jesus was a semite and mostlikely black. I have a friend who wrote a chamber opera about a black Jesus, and it was a great hit!!
You know, how I love to think about these provocative issues.
correction: Semite: Black or very dark skinned.
I have heard the arguments that Jesus may have been gay, but I am more interested in whether he traveled to India during the 'missing years' or that he may have survived the crucifixion and traveled east afterwards. That maybe John the Baptist was his guru and initiated him into monkhood.
Here is an interesting article:
THE LOST TRIBES
(Israelite Origin of the Kashmiri People)
1. INTRODUCTION
Assuming that Jesus Christ survived the crucifixion, for what purpose would he travel, far away from his homeland, to Kashmir? Perhaps the answer might be found in the Bible:
“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, ‘Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’”
(Bible, Matthew 10: 5 & 6)
Even Christians believe that one of the Disciples, Thomas, did precisely that: he traveled to India and set up the first Christian communities there. During the ministry of Jesus Christ in Israel there were only two tribes of the Jewish people in his homeland: Yehuda and Binyomin (Judah and Benjamin). The other ten tribes had been scattered away during the First Temple Era. Proponents of the Jesus-in-India theory state that the “lost sheep” mentioned by Jesus Christ in the Bible referred to the ten tribes that had been scattered, and that the term “lost sheep” did not just mean wayward Jews who no longer followed the path of God.
So, after the Ascension of Jesus (or, according to the Jesus-in-India theory, after he began his travels through Asia), the Apostles met in Jerusalem and, in obedience to the above-mentioned Biblical instruction of Jesus Christ to go and preach his message to the remaining Jewish tribes, portioned all the countries of the world amongst themselves. India, which at that time included all Middle East to the present India, was given to Thomas.
The Acta Thomae, an apocryphal book that is historically dated around the end of the first century, shortly after the martyrdom of St. Thomas, gives an account of Thomas’s efforts. Thomas is said to have traveled to India with one Habban, taking a sea route and landing in a port called Sandruk Mahosa. Thomas traveled throughout India spreading the word of Jesus Christ. To this day, local tradition in India supports the accounts located in the Acta Thomae.
Oops, forgot to list link, sorry I am not verse in html code.
http://www.tombofjesus.com/core/majorplayers/lost-tribes/lost-tribes-p1.htm
Sure, why not? Given the way Matthew Shepard was strung up and murdered, it would seem that for some 2000 years the preferred method of slaughtering homosexuals has been crucifixion.
In my humble opinion it hardly matters whether Jesus was actually gay, married, or any of that real-life stuff. People aren't really interested in the truth about Jesus-the-human-being. They're much more interested in the son-of-god story. Why Jesus in particular was chosen to memorialize in this way is anybody's guess, the same way Rosa Parks was chosen to make the history books as "the woman who wouldn't sit in the back of the bus," as though she was the first to think of it. She was in fact one of thousands of people nationwide involved in organized demonstrations, including public bus boycotts and staged refusals to obey segregated seating conventions. Somehow she got chosen as the token one, the one whose story was immortalized; likewise, amid all sorts of religious and cultural persecution, somehow the story of Jesus in particular got chosen as the one to immortalize, the one most emblematic of undeserved suffering and redemption.
I was raised in the Catholic church, but I don't believe Jesus was the son of god (any more than the rest of us are), and I certainly don't believe in a virgin birth! :-) But I think the story told about him remains powerful and compelling because every culture needs a story of undeserved persecution and cruelty followed by redemption. It makes us feel less alone and gives us hope, especially those among us who feel most downtrodden.
Scott & WW,
I think you are both making an excellent point: It does not matter whether Jesus was gay, straight, married, divoced, or the son of God. What is important is the principles for which he stood: compassion and tolerance, those which many, but by no means all, Christians preach but do not practice.
Hey, why not? It would explain a lot about the company he kept. Who knows? I've been reading some stuff that claim that Jesus may never have existed at all. I mean, the gospels were written over 200 years after his death. How do we know he really preached tolerance and compassion? Also, saying that Christianity is the religion of compassion and tolerance buys into the many that say that the "Old Testemant" is the story about the vengeful G-d, and that the "New Testemant" is the story of the loving G-d. That's all a bunch of bull, in my book. In the words of Rambam, G-d is not non-existent. He has no human attributes. To say that christianity teaches and is known for teaching compassion and love is to almost say that Judaism does not. The concept of turning the other cheeck is to denounce justice, the concept of reward and punishment, and personal responsibility.
Whatever. Whether gay, sraight, real, fake, that guy and the religion that has been created on his behalf has been the cause of so much pain, torture, grief, and suffering for Jews and any other people that weren't like them. So much for love and compassion.
Hope all is well, Barb.
-OC
Olah makes a point, and something which I should clarify.
I have never read the New Testament, so some assumptions that I make, may be just that. I invite from everyone on this issue, and if there is/are any historical or other basis, I welcome them as well.
Well...he DID seem to hang out with dudes all the time.
I can picture it now. Rainbow Jesus, wearing a multi-color tie dye robe and prancing down the road wearing elf shoes. That must have shook up the ancient world a little bit.
Interesting topic!
Not being a Christian, I never could get my head around the claims for Jesus of Nazareth.
There is , of course, the story that the Vatican is sitting on a whole load of information which it doesn`t want to share with the rest of the world, one of them being Jesus of Nazareths involvement with Mary Magdalane, supposedly one of the disciples, and that Jesus of Nazareth did indeed have a family.
As the Vatican prefer to think of women as troublesome sub-humans, I doubt if the Vatican would ever come forward with any information on involvement with women!
They would probably rather he had been gay than pollute himself with womanly things!!
Interesting post, Barbara. You are certainly correct that Jesus was more like a rabbi/prophet of his times than anything else, and that he was certainly Jewish -- something so many folks seem to forget!
I am with dddragon in that I think it's very possible that he was gay OR that he and Mary Magdalene were married. There is some historical evidence to suggest that Mary M. was NOT a prostitute, but instead the unnamed "disciple that Jesus loved".
I find it the MOST hard to believe that Jesus was asexual or completely celebate. It's hard to imagine such a passionate person going through life in that way. But, who knows?
I'm not sure there is evidence to suggest that he was gay. Evidence suggest a marriage to Mary Magdaline and some evidence points to an interest in Buddhism. Many parables come from Buddhist wisdom. Also, he may have smoked pot.
Olah - I agree. Christianity is the cause of much pain and grief. We should all begin to find a way to illustrate that point.
Ya know, Jesus could've been a womyn. Maybe that's why there's no body.
Mary Magdelene was indeed not a prostituted; that image was given to her by a medieval pope (sorry, but I don't remember which one) in order to make Catholocism (the only Christianity available at the time) more accessible to the poor. Kind of a way to prove the mercy of God; "even a prostitute can be saved!" So it's quite possible she and Jesus were married.
I finished an Ancient History class this year. What I learned about Jesus was that he, and thousands of others, were tortured to death by being strung up on crosses and left to starve and/or dehydrate to death. The Mediterrianian is a hot dry place--no water and blazing sun means you die fairly quickly. Think of it: vultures hanging around and eating corpses by your side, the stench of thousands on crosses, the hot dry sun. How would anyone get to the persyn up in the sky to feed them as portrayed in the bible?
Men, womyn, and children were put on these crosses to die for small transactions such as stealing food or clothing. The Romans, who were in control of the area at the time, had a complete and utter disregard for life as they perscuted anyone and everyone for the ultimate crime of not being Roman. Slaves, prostitutes, wives, former senators, no one was safe from being cruicified.
My point is the circumstances that Jesus was punished were not unique. Anyone who was killed this way could be considered a messiah for being tortured to death on a cross.
Gay, black, Jew, none of it matters. The fact that the church has created a myth that has caused the death of millions of people is what matters. Peace, love, and happiness is what Christainity preaches, but few practice them.
I come from a Catholic father and Protestant mother. Both sides of my family will villify you for being gay, poor, non-white. I am a peace loving pussy pacifist who is pro-choice, anti-death penalty, anti-capitalism and for these ideas, I am ostrasized from my kin. Aunts, uncles, and cousins don't see that their hypocrasy alienated me and they have been the impetious for my search in a belief system which does practice these important traits.
Tolerant? Loving? Accepting? Not that I've seen.
I frequently joke that Jesus was gay. Do I believe it? Sort of. IF indeed he never married, then, yes I think he was gay. Why wouldn't he marry? But, as others have pointed out, he may have been married to Mary Magdalene. So, either married or gay. But, as Aral says, NOT sexless.
Agree with niobium, most of the Christians I have met in my life have been the worst advert I have seen for the theory of Christinity.
There are too many people who are just in love with religion for the sake of it, it becomes dogma.
They are self-righteous, unforgiving, and pious rather than spiritual people.
In saying that, I have met the occasional Christian where I felt quite taken by their selfless nature.
But not many!!
Maybe Mary Magdalene was a lesbian and when Jesus found out he was so angry that he forbade all of his students from living with a woman.
Rock,
I suppose living in galliee gives one a unique and interesting perspective as can be.
Be well.
Barbara, I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote this:
"I think you are both making an excellent point: It does not matter whether Jesus was gay, straight, married, divoced, or the son of God. What is important is the principles for which he stood: compassion and tolerance, those which many, but by no means all, Christians preach but do not practice."
As in our discussion about Lashon Hara above, I think many time people don't live up to their religion. Many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianity, things that seem particularly ironic to me in light of Jesus's teachings.
These days the Christian right wing are trying to force a certain view of Christianity down everyone's throat. But Jesus himself was very different.
I really love Jesus, I hope you will give the NT a try someday, I think you would like it. Jesus is cool. He is my hero. :-)
Niobium, I agree with you. The only reasons I would have alienated you was b/c you're "a peace loving pussy pacifist who is pro-choice, anti-death penalty, anti-capitalism..." Hahahaha.
Barb, don't give into the missionaries!!! Read the NT, so you have the knowledge to as the saying goes, "Da' Mah LeHaShiv LeApikoros" (Eng: "Know what to respond to [one who attempts to challenge your faith]") ~ Pirqei Avoth
Be strong, barb.
-OC
Thank you, Kate for your insight and support. You have made some excellent points.
Some of the frummies are offended when I use the word, hit the nail on the head, but maybe it is because they do not know what it means. I have stopped paying attention to them.
OC: After I re-read the Torah, I may consider reading the NT, but it is a book that does not really interest me, to tell you the truth.
But I can see your point in that it would add meat to the bones of some of these arguments.
No, I don't think that Jesus was gay. I do think that he was an exceptionally good and loving man that has been misinterpreted and used in hurtful ways by cruel and ignorant people for centuries.
I seriously doubt that if he was gay, it could have been kept a secret. True, there was no National Enquirer in those days ;-) but there were always gossips. It would definitely have gotten out, were it so.
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