How Do we Protect Ourselves From Terrorists?
Terrorism is becoming an all too familiar problem to many countries in the world today. Even before 9/11, there were bombings that had occurred in various parts of the world, ranging from those aboard airlines, to the shores of Asia. Since 9/11, many more people, especially Americans, are more aware of terrorism and its effects on the security of their nation and the world. It is definitely a scary proposition, I must admit.
Israel has been dealing with terrorism for more years than can be mentioned. During the past two individual over the past 5 years, many lives, both Jews and non-Jews have been claimed in a fight over land, and the existence of the Jewish people. As you know, Jews have felt the need to erect a fence to protect themselves and secure their boarders from the existence of terrorists in the State of Israel. Suicide bombs have been common place there prior to their achieving recognition and importance in Iraq as a form of inhumane distruction of human life.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists, and many Israeli citizens are in fact of Arab, not Jewish decent, who face the same issues of fear for their safety.
I am like Alan Dershowitz in many ways. Fair-minded, and many may conclude liberal thinking in many areas of politics, but do believe that Israel has an absolute right to defend and protect itself no matter what.
Here is the question of the day: Do you think Israel has a a right to build the fence for protection and security from terrorists? If not, what other means can be implemented to secure the safety for its people and its boarders, when there exists many who surround this country who hate the people who life there? How can the Israeli model be used to secure our own boarders here at home and protect us from terrorism?
Thank you for your minds.
Israel has been dealing with terrorism for more years than can be mentioned. During the past two individual over the past 5 years, many lives, both Jews and non-Jews have been claimed in a fight over land, and the existence of the Jewish people. As you know, Jews have felt the need to erect a fence to protect themselves and secure their boarders from the existence of terrorists in the State of Israel. Suicide bombs have been common place there prior to their achieving recognition and importance in Iraq as a form of inhumane distruction of human life.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists, and many Israeli citizens are in fact of Arab, not Jewish decent, who face the same issues of fear for their safety.
I am like Alan Dershowitz in many ways. Fair-minded, and many may conclude liberal thinking in many areas of politics, but do believe that Israel has an absolute right to defend and protect itself no matter what.
Here is the question of the day: Do you think Israel has a a right to build the fence for protection and security from terrorists? If not, what other means can be implemented to secure the safety for its people and its boarders, when there exists many who surround this country who hate the people who life there? How can the Israeli model be used to secure our own boarders here at home and protect us from terrorism?
Thank you for your minds.
20 Comments:
I think the best way Israel can provide for its security is to stick to the "road map" thing. It is obvious that staying in the west bank and other occupied areas while using the military to blow stuff up is not working so well.
Once the occupied areas are returned, the terror groups will have to find a new boogey man - they will not be able to point at a soldier or apartment complex and blame everything on it.
Anyway, last time I heard any news the plan is to pull out of the occupied regions, and this is in fact already happening. And the bombings stopped. Could be a very good sign. I am optimistic.
The sitution in Israel is one that I think about quite a bit, and in my opinion, is somewhat distinguishable from others regarding the issue of terrorism.
Israel is surrounded by people who believe in the existence of the Jewish state. Jew hatred is a factor, and component that exists, and many will not be happy until the Jews no longer exist, period. Remember, we have been kicked out of almost every country we have been for 2000 years, so the issue of hatred is significant.
On the one hand, I do believe in the existence of the wall, as I think it necessary to protect Israel and Jews from the neighbors who hate them. On the other, I think that in some ways it ghettoizes the Jews who are there, making the them enclosed like in the stedls of Eastern Europe. But when one balances the need to be safe and secure against other factors, the wall seems to be the best of all possible solutions.
Now, I am sure many of you who label me a leftist thinker are surprised at my response, but as I say in my post, my politics about Israel and its right to exist peacefuly and safely without terror are absolute.
I am also curious to hear responses to Anna's question. The Palestinian/Jewish thing has always been one of those issues where it seems to me that everyone is wrong. Or everyone is right. I don't know. It's not easy to get info that's not biased when it comes to this.
Anna,
Thank you for your questions.
I am perhaps not the best person to be objective on this subject, but let me try to explain from my own perspective.
The State Israel was created in 1948 in response to the masscure more tha 6 million Jews in Nazi Germany. A place that Jews can call a home is important to us, after having so many of our own slaughtered during this horrific period of time. Most Jews do become angry, and get quite emotional, myself included, when the issue of Israel and its right to exist is explored.
You must realize that every day during the intifida was like 9/11 for Jews in Israel, many scared on a daily basis to leave their homes or go out in public, for fear of being blow up by suicide bombers. There is an excellent book by David Horowitz called STILL LIFE WITH BOMBERS dealing with this viewpoint from the Israeli perspective.
Hope this helps.
I think the proper name of the territory was trans-Jordan at one time.
Actually, I think my politics may even be to the right of those of normaljew on this issue.
hi barbara,
i don't think it's any more possible to protect ourselves from terrorists than it is to protect ourselves from deadly blog comments. i think people in general are wired to throw bombs at each other and without the help of God will continue to do it in every form available. i think that's why we need to teach our children to 'do good' - 'bad' comes naturally.
i totally relate to your need for a spiritual community (just a feeling i got from your previous posts - hope i'm not reading into things too much)
praying for you as you find your way.
I'm with Normal Jew on this one. Would I like it to be different? Of course. But, history shows us otherwise. If Israel changes things a bit and there's a temporary lull, I would be willing to bet all kinds of money that it is only temporary.
As for how we protect us, Bush needs to stop catering to Big Business and put their money where his mouth is. If he really cares about protecting us, and believes that we need the Patriot Act to secure our country, than he needs to go to the extra step of securing our borders!
Here in Florida, we have entire industries built on the back of illegal immigrants. I always hear the tired old line that they are doing what no citizens want to do. Well, let's try it and find out, shall we? They also are certainly welcome to work here and be legal. The reason they don't want to is that Big Business doesn't want to pay the payroll taxes that it would take to hire them then. In the meantime, our borders are as porous as a sieve, and there have been documented terrorists that made it across through Mexico because of it.
Anna, the thing is: the land belonged to the Jews way before the current Palestinians settled in there. The only reason that they weren't able to retain the land is that they had been driven out of it. It was just returning the land to them. The others were actually the 'squatters'. However, realizing that they were born there too, there have been efforts that were made to integrate them into the area as well. The problem is that they don't wish to live in peace with the Jews.
How did I do with the summary, Barbara?
Thank you both Anna and Saurkraut.
There is such contradictions in the issue of boarder safety, control and legal residents. On the one hand, we want to protect our Americans, at least we say, but have few safeguards at the boarders to put that into effect. Then when people are here illegally, we want to deny them rights, i.e. driver's licenses, rights to education, social services, but it is alright if they work for less money to help big business. If that does not work, we can always forget about American workers, and outsource jobs.
Makes such good sense, huh!!
Good points there Saur.
"Great Britian made yet another 'advance booking' for yet another interested party. In an effort to appeal to US, Russian, and German Jewry and also secure control over the territory adjacent to the Suez Canal, Britian agreed to favor the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. This agreement--the famous Balfour Declaration of November 1917--was conveyed in a letter from Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, a prominent British Zionist. If the British pledge to suppor, however indirectly, Jewish settlement in Palestin was to be implemented, Britian would have to remain in occupation of Palestine.
...
The decisions reached at the San Remo Conference (April 1920) detached the Arab provinces from the Ottoman authority and apportioned them between Britain and France. The former provinces were divided into entities called mandates...It can be noted here that the mandate system was little more than nineteenth-century imperialism repackaged to give the appearance of self-determination. Britain received the mandates for Iraq and Palestine, France the mandate for Syria. Iraq was a completely new state created out of three Ottoman provinces--Basra, Baghdad, and Mosul--that had little in common. By aquiring control over this new entity, Britain enhanced its posistion in the Persain Gulf, secured the approaches to India, and gained access to petroleum resources. The third Arab state which Britian exercised direct influence, Transjordan, did not exist at the time the Treaty of Sevres was drawn up (August 10, 1920). The hasty creation of Transjordan was a result of the manner in which France took control of its Syrian mandate and best understood in the context of that event."
I forgot to cite the above entry:
A History of the Modern Middle East Second Edition by William L. Cleveland, Westview Press, 2000 p. 160-1
"the land belonged to the Jews way before the current Palestinians settled in there."
How far back do we go to learn who the "true" owners of the land are? Would any Americans here have a problem with Native Americans taking back their land? Should I be sent back to Europe because my ancestors have only been in the States for a few generations?
I'm not choosing sides on the Palestinian/Israeli topic. But that reasoning doesn't work for me. And I've yet to hear any really good, solid argument for or against either side.
Land ownership and aquisition are a complicated issues.
The real subject of this post, and what I was hoping to hear about, was how do we protect ourselves from terrorists? Israel was used as an example of a State that has dealt with suicide bombers for a long time.
Lori suggests part of the way is through education. Saurkraut talks about securing and tightening our boarders in a better way. Any other ways people can think about?
It is something I have been thinking about lately, especially in light of what has recently happened in London.
Sorry about going off topic! I didn't even realize...
But I have no idea how to answer your question. Obviously, nothing has worked so far.
No worries, meeegan. I too went off topic myself, which is easy to do.
I do not believe in being mentally held captive to the terrorists, so I wanted everyone's ideas about what, if anything can be done from a practical point of view. Maybe nothing is the answer, although it is hard for me to believe that to be true, especially since Bush believes that spending billions on Iraq is doing something, and it is: killing many innocent men and women, and costing us lots of money.
"This land is my land, this land is your land..."
You cannot protect yourself from terrorists if you lay claim to land and refuse to share it or its resources (such as water.) Land belongs to all of us, not one group of people who can "afford" it, but most people would disagree with such a statement. Land is considered a right of the rich and powerful. But you're right Barbara, it's a complicated issue.
It's a case of the haves and the have nots with the have nots being angry enough to blow themselves, and others, up for what they believe in. This is not a new idea and as long as it garners attention and undermines gov'ts, terrorism will succeed.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think this nation has become a police state and I am *not* pleased.
We could put a cop at every door, DNA scan every persyn, but it wouldn't end the violence (if anything, it will only increase). If someone is determined to blow up a plane, train, automobile, building or what have you, they will and *nobody* is going to be able to stop them.
No one can stop terrorism with peace, I i want to walk up and randomly put a bullet in someones head, how can it be stopped?
the only way is the break the will of the people you want to control. japan, germany, libya... all violent threats at one time, put in thier place by overwhelming force, now they are a part of somewhat civil society.
The only way to solve the jewish/palestinian problem is to finally take the gloves off, allow israel to go in and beat down the palestinian until they stop the bullshit...
i don't really care who is the aggressor, but it would seem that israel just wants to survive and palestine is looking for genocide
Hi there,
The history of the area is, as everyone has agreed so far, a complex one.
It is also one which has caused much disagreement amongst people around the world. And it is one which has even caused disagreements amongst jewish thinkers around the world.
A leading Rabbi and academic in London was branded `anti-semitic` in the last couple of years for saying that he felt that the treatment of the Palestinians was heavy handed by the State of Israel.
A documentary on UK TV also took a look at DNA of both Palestinians and Israelies. It, of course, said what both sides did not want to hear...they were genetically the same people. There is apparently a distinct genetic marker only held by people from that region, and both peoples have it.
There are also people living in Israel who feel that their government has been unfair in it`s treatment of Palestinians.
Now, that being said, there is no justification in my eyes for bombing.
You asked, Barbara, if we agreed with building fences, and I think you know my own personal view on fence-building.
I have never believed in fences. I think the fence, which crosses over peoples land, regardless of their civil rights, was a most unfortunate step to take, and one which would obviously cause further frustrations and anger on the Palestinian side.
Both peoples are entitled to this land, but just as the world accepts the State of Israel, then it is also essential that the state of Palestine is also accepted.
This dispute has went on way too long now, and attrocities have been carried out on BOTH sides.
As long as people on either side build defensive arguments about why they cannot , or will not, talk to each other, the trouble in that area will continue.
Both Jews and Palestinians lived side by side on that land in the past...and in peace...it will obviously take a long, long time for wounds to heal on either side, but it will have to be done.
The effort has to be made by BOTH sides.
One of the problems of a conflict such as this one, is that a hard core opinion gets built up by a small group of people on either side, whereby they do not want to see a resolution to the problem ever, and will continue to attempt to inflame the situation from their own perspective.
The situation in Northern Ireland has went on much, much longer than this one, and the religious divide is still there, with a hard core on either side who secretly wish for the days of the armed conflict and bombings to return to the streets.
One side even use the slogan "no surrender"
The bloodshed has went on so long, that the people can no longer stand the bloodshed and dying.
The hard core opinion is now, at long last, after so many years, out of step with the people of the area, and on both sides.
It HAD to stop. It is tentative peace, could be easily upset at any moment, and there have been attempts to disrupt the peace by hard elements on either side...but the longer the peace holds, the easier it will get.
And that is the hard reality.
The argument against peace talks in Northern Ireland used to be "I will not sit down to talk with terrorists"
And, as we said in another post, "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"...so both sides saw the other as terrorists.
Even now, both sides will not meet face to face and will not be in the same building at the same time...
but there is a peace gradually happening, and one day all the extremists will have grown old and died. New generations who know only peace will eventually carry on.
And, both sides were guilty of atrocities, but both felt righteous in their cause.
Do both sides want to kill and be killed for all time...or do they finally say STOP.
With Israel and Palestine, both territories have a right to live as independant and self-governing states, and both have a right to live in peace.
And there will come a day when it has to happen, whether die-hards on both sides like it or not.
Peace doesn`t happen overnight..everyone is well aware of that..but it will have to happen, and the two peoples will have to share the region. It is both their right.
But so is peace. All I`m saying is don`t lock yourself into a corner, where there is no room to move position. Both sides in this conflict have done terrible things, but one day, no matter how far into the future, there WILL be two independant States, living side by side, who hopefully might even be able to trade, talk, and deal with each other as equals.
I was in two minds tonight whether to publish this post, or not. I know, only too well, the strength of feeling this subject, like the Irish "troubles" causes.
In the west of Scotland, where most of us have Irish in our blood somewhere, we still do not like to discuss religion when out in a pub.
It is still regarded as a risky subject.
I am an optimist, but a realist also.
Peace will have to happen, and somewhere down the line it will.
NormalJew...your comments are both historically accurate and in touch with the current situation in Israel.I applaude you for taking such a realistic and just stand on behalf of the Jewish State.
All this talk of "palestinians are just like us" and "they need a home too" and "they were kicked out by the Jews" is just information people have never really tried to explore; information that has been forced on them by the mostly anti-Semitic media. As most of you know, the world is still a very Jew-hating place as it's always been...nothing new.
As for the building of the fence, here's another perspective just to throw out there...by building this fence,Sharon is almost guaranteeing the future creation of a palestinian State. This, in fact would be a terrorist state. There is no such term as "justice" among the Arabs. There's power-political and military but justice does not exist!!! I live in Israel, I've been to all the sites you hear about in the newspapers, I've visited in Gush Katif. There will never be peace in Israel until the Arabs finally realize that Israel is an eternal entity, here to stay for present and future generations. This is revisionist Zionsit policy of Zeev (Vladimir) Zhabotinsky.
Anybody interested in Israeli politics should read up on the creation of the Israel and the refugee problem. I suggest "Battleground: Facts and Fantasy in Palestine" by Samuel Katz. Once again NormalJew, kol ha'kavod!
Be'tikva, (in hope) Eitan.
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