Are Some Ultra-Religious Jews Snobs?
First of all, let me wish all of my fellow Jews, a Chag Semeach, and a good yontif. This is how we tell each other, Happy Holidays, and since it Passover continues, it applies today. Chag Sameach literally translates to "Happy Holidays."
As I have been contemplating the meaning of Peseach, I have been asking myself the question, whether some very religious Jews are snobbs. What I mean by this, is that if one is not as religious as he/she may be, they do not greet you, wish you a happy holiday, or send you any type of wishes when Shabbos descends upon us on Friday evening. Has it become the case that one of a Jew's worst enemies is another Jew?
I say with complete seriousness. My husband and I watched a wonderful movie the other day called, Ushpizin. Set in Israel, it was about the plight of a very religious family, who lived inside a frum onclave inside of Jerusalem. It was sucot and some other Jews from the main character's past (he had made a transformation) came to visit and although different, they were welcomed, treated well, and fed by this relgious Jew. It was they conclusion that this was not only their obligation, but that their own dedication to their religion was being tested.
Consequently, I have thought about this question I pose above. This is something that I myself have encountered, even when walking down the street on Shabbos in a very religious neighborhood. Do they think their schmekel will fall off if they send another less religious Jew greetings? Does the same hold true in the 'neighborhood' of blogsville? The Rebbe would accept any Jew, religious or not so, and send greetings and good tidings, in the hopes of making them better Jews. But are Jews who shun less religious Jews, either by good deed or good thoughts, turning them away from rather than towards Judaism? The Torah does not distinguish one type of Jew from another, nor does the Talmud to my knowledge. A Jew is someone whose mother was Jewish, period. So why is it that some who are more religious feel the need to put other non-relgious Jews down, or even worse, not wish them a Happy Holiday or a good Shabbos?
Thank you for your minds.
As I have been contemplating the meaning of Peseach, I have been asking myself the question, whether some very religious Jews are snobbs. What I mean by this, is that if one is not as religious as he/she may be, they do not greet you, wish you a happy holiday, or send you any type of wishes when Shabbos descends upon us on Friday evening. Has it become the case that one of a Jew's worst enemies is another Jew?
I say with complete seriousness. My husband and I watched a wonderful movie the other day called, Ushpizin. Set in Israel, it was about the plight of a very religious family, who lived inside a frum onclave inside of Jerusalem. It was sucot and some other Jews from the main character's past (he had made a transformation) came to visit and although different, they were welcomed, treated well, and fed by this relgious Jew. It was they conclusion that this was not only their obligation, but that their own dedication to their religion was being tested.
Consequently, I have thought about this question I pose above. This is something that I myself have encountered, even when walking down the street on Shabbos in a very religious neighborhood. Do they think their schmekel will fall off if they send another less religious Jew greetings? Does the same hold true in the 'neighborhood' of blogsville? The Rebbe would accept any Jew, religious or not so, and send greetings and good tidings, in the hopes of making them better Jews. But are Jews who shun less religious Jews, either by good deed or good thoughts, turning them away from rather than towards Judaism? The Torah does not distinguish one type of Jew from another, nor does the Talmud to my knowledge. A Jew is someone whose mother was Jewish, period. So why is it that some who are more religious feel the need to put other non-relgious Jews down, or even worse, not wish them a Happy Holiday or a good Shabbos?
Thank you for your minds.
26 Comments:
I think the question you're asking can be applied to any spirituality/religion. I certainly see it in my Catholic family. My aunts and uncles fight with one another about who's "more" and "better" Catholic than the others because some send their kids to Catholic schools, some are more involved with their church, etc.
I also see it in the Pagan community. Some feel that because they live rurally they are better Pagans than those who live sub/urbanly. I see that it comes down to humans being a heirarchical species. It doesn't matter what country you live in, what your beliefs are, someone thinks their better than someone else based on artificial calulations.
barbara
the problem is that you want every person you ever exchanged words online to bless you good shabbos every single friday not evryone has the time i personaly dont even have the time to greet my own parents every friday so the problem isnt ultra religious jews its you thats the problem
not every person that knows can take the time off their busy schedule to greet you it has nothing to do with the level of observance
your latest post shows the true colors in you, you HATE ultra religious jews because you know god loves them MORE and are SUPERIOR to you
dont give me the bull crap that god loves every jew and every human like the christian bullcrap, you will agree that god loved moses more then anyone else as it says in the torah
When I was religious it really irked me to see snobbery in the Church. I saw it as very hypocritical. Of course I know it's not confined to religion, but of all the places for snobbry NOT to be...
I don't know about jews, but I always thought the must humble Christians were the ones who followed what I thot as the predicates of the religion.
First of all, it is the case that this phenomena is not limited to Jews, as many have mentioned.
YY, you are incorrect in your conclusion that I hate Orthodox Jews. I respect them and defend them when necessary. But what I discuss you know only too well. First of all, many even here in blogsville have the time to post non-sense on other's blogs, make negative comments, impersonate others, etc. You know that some very religious Jews think of themselves as superior to other Jews, and consequently do not even bother to greet them, or wish them well, even on the streets. What this tells me is that some, not all think of themselves as superior,which is not commanded anywhere, as far as I know.
To compare yourself to Moses(which it sounds like you are doing) is shameful!
I would like to echo Niobium: I’ve seen this phenomenon among people of all different faiths, and I’ve also seen how it takes effect in inter-faith exchanges.
The only solution I find that works for me is to do my best to be accepting of and open to everyone, regardless of their faith or any other unique characteristics. Unfortunately, this is not necessarily true for everyone else, and it’s not to say that it isn’t a challenge to remain open-minded to those who are close-minded.
I walk my own path, and prefer to let each individual walk their own respective paths as well. There is no one path... we all must make those determinations for ourselves.
L>T, I totally agree: I too have found that it is often those who are most humble, introspective, open-minded, and generous who are furthest along their path. :)
Barbara, thank you for your thoughts as always. It is indeed a strangely ubiquitous trait among humans to harbor a need to feel better than others.
I would like to echo Niobium: Plus add a few words of my own. Their snobs in every corner of this world they come in different races, size, and religion. Believe me we have some snobs in our family some of them our regular church going and others or not.
A church or relgion doesn't feel one heart it's up to each one of us.
It is not my claim that all religious individuals think they are superior, or actually give an air of snobbiness about them. It is only a handful, who seem to think along these lines. I have experienced it in the real world, and in blogsville, where some who claim to be ultra religious, will neither post nor send greetings to a less religious Jew. Frankly, I send greetings to all of my people, no matter what their level or degree of affiliation, i.e., from the most Orthodox to the less secular, as I think it is a common courtesey to wish another Jew a Happy Holiday, and because it makes me feel good.
I think people are just competitive and feel safer in their own lives if they convince themselves that they are better than others. Plus, you are talking about a group of people who truly believe that they are the "chosen" ones, so of course this phenomenon you described would be directed to all non-Jews and also to less religious Jews.
Barbara, very interesting question, very interesting responses (I read them all) and I see amazing restraint and compassion in you.
Thank you, Saur...I try to have an open mind and an open heart, and speak in a way that is analytical, yet not name calling, and child-like, as some, who probably just do not know any other way to communicate other than to be nasty and cruel.
If people disagree with what I have to say, I am always open for intelligent debate. Those who draw conclusions in the form of name calling, and make harsh, nasty comments that have nothing to do with what is written, somehow, to me say that I have hit a nerve, and these individuals do not know how to deal with it other than it a negative, unkind way. Perhaps that is the best they can do, as that is all they know.
This issue of snobbery in the ultra religious has been on my mind, and has especially surfaced since I began blogging.
Some "ultra-religious" Jews are snobs. Some conservative Jews are snobs. Some reform Jews are snobs. There are people who need to work on their medios in every branch.
I think blogsville can bring out the worst in some people. People who live highly restrained lives may be at a greater risk. It's easier to indulge the evil inclination when you think no one is watching. Maybe the best way to help people who are struggling so much with anger and negativity is to ignore them?
Ahuva,
You have made some excellent points, and I thank you for having the courage to post them.
The snobbery we find, may in fact be the result of more deep seeded personal issues, rather than religious ones. It has been my experience to meet some truly nice Orthodox Jews, who go out of their way for others, and who are not mean and negative. Chabad is an excellent example of this, in their outreach programs for Jews.
The negativity, meanness and aloffness, I have encountered, here in blogsville, and on the streets, sadly, when walking on a Shabbbos day. When someone takes time, energy and expense to be nasty, rather than positive and constructive, it is indeed a sign of some character defect, perhaps more than anything else.
Chag Semeach, and thanks for posting!
Cubanita (aka YY), please stay off my blog. You have nothing of value to contribute, only negative comments laced with anger. I feel sorry for you, as you must have been abused or continue to be abused.
I am not going to delete your comments above, since I want others to see the negativity and sick soul surfaces. Please get yourself some help.
For your information, I do not eat pork, and the fact that you keep bringing this issue up over and over again makes me think that you have some serious mental health issues. Please, go see a psychiatrist, and get some medication. May God bless you, and keep you from any more of this insanity!
FYI YY's ASL is 24/male/brooklyn
cubanita's ASL is female young NY
so barabara you're the one who is day dreaming
eschet,
you have indeed been nice and civil, and I thank you for it. Chag Semeach to you and your family.
As for YY and cubanita being one in the same, it is not worth my time making an effort to prove nor disprove this theory. More important things going on in the world, like today a suicide bomb which was applauded by Hamas killed 9 Jews in Tel Aviv.
Although I do not dress tsunis, you can tell I am a Jew since I always wear either a Mogen David or a Hamsa around my neck. Even when I went into some Orthodox shuls for my father, wearing a dress and all, I was not greeted warmly. But the Orthodox are not the only ones who display this lack of civility, it exists among all Jews. In fact, to me, what is going to cause our extinction in the next 500 years, is going to be our own fighting of each other, Jew v. Jew, since there is so much of that going on today anyway. It totally breaks my heart, to tell you the truth.
men are forbidden to greet women even with a gut shabbos
Well, eschet, there are many types of Jews who exisit, here and in Israel, and when you say that you are recognized by the way you dress, you are referring to tsunis, or Orthodox Jews.
That being said, many here in blogsville know I am a Jew. They do not come to my blog, and I will not identify them by name, as I think they know who they are, with the execption of pragmatician, yourself, David and YY. Not once do I hear Chag Semeach, which acknowledges the holiday of Pesach, which I do, point of fact observe.
So my question remains, are these individuals less accepting, even here in blogsville, because they believe to be superior since they are Orthodox, and a kind of snobbery has surfaced, or are they just plain unfriendly?
Thoughts for the day...I am finished with this subject, as my mind is on Israel now, and the attacks that took place today, and frankly it is much more important to me to make sure that Israel does not get wiped off the map then whether someone dresses like a Jew (according to your defintion) or wishes me a chag semeach.
Good day.
jews will never be wiped off the map we survived 1000's of years we were killed and tortured in every generation yet we are still long and strong
while other powerful huge nations got suddenly completely wiped out and forgotten
stop worrying as god said "i will never kill off all jews no matter how great the sin"
that verse is in b'chekoseh
where god warns jews what will happen to them if they sin and the punishments
YY, God willing what you say is true. But the question remains, where was God during the Holocaust, and why did He let 6 million of his people be tortured and exterminated?
When we say we must never forget this horrible act, it means that we must be vigilent too.
YY and cubanita,
Are you both disturbed or just plainly antanogisitc? I have had a few frum Jews email me privately, and question your behavior, coming to the conclusion that what you are doing is chuil Hashem.
As for eschil, you are a nice, young woman, I can see, but being raised in a sheltered community gives you a very unrealistic view of the world.
Please stay off my blog, all of you, especially during Peseach, where you could be putting your resources to better use.
That being said, I must remind myself that you are all 3 in your early 20s, and have much to learn from life.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Actually, I am not going to remove them...I am going to let you all speak for yourselves, and let others, judge you by what you have to say.
It is clear what you do during Peseach: insult another Jew, make negative and disparagiing comments, be unkind and nasty, please remember your conduct during the remainder of your seders.
It is people like you who make me turn away form not towards my religion, such hypocracity, nastiness, and judgment.
even when walking down the street on Shabbos in a very religious neighborhood. Do they think their schmekel will fall off if they send another less religious Jew greetings?
1. men are not permitted to greet women
2. you are making a chillul hashem by smearing true religous jews for not wanting to speak with stranger women like goyim do and posting on your blog about their dick falling off the halacha is that if a man greets a strager woman he goes to hell!
you dont get it because you arent a true jew
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