If I forget thee, Jerusalem....
As Tisha' B'av comes to a close and we get ready for a new chapter in the lives of those in Israel, I want to share one of my favorite poems by Yehuda Amichai:
"If I forget thee, Jerusalem,Then let my right be forgotten.Let my right be forgotten, and my left remember.Let my left remember, and your right closeAnd your mouth open near the gate.I shall remember JerusalemAnd forget the forest -- my love will remember,Will open her hair, will close my window,will forget my right,Will forget my left.If the west wind does not comeI'll never forgive the walls,Or the sea, or myself.Should my right forgetMy left shall forgive,I shall forget all water,I shall forget my mother.If I forget thee, Jerusalem,Let my blood be forgotten.I shall touch your forehead,Forget my own,My voice changeFor the second and last timeTo the most terrible of voices --Or silence. " Yehuda Amichai
May the transition that meets Israel tomorrow be mesured by tranquility and be met with peace for all people in the State of Israel.
"If I forget thee, Jerusalem,Then let my right be forgotten.Let my right be forgotten, and my left remember.Let my left remember, and your right closeAnd your mouth open near the gate.I shall remember JerusalemAnd forget the forest -- my love will remember,Will open her hair, will close my window,will forget my right,Will forget my left.If the west wind does not comeI'll never forgive the walls,Or the sea, or myself.Should my right forgetMy left shall forgive,I shall forget all water,I shall forget my mother.If I forget thee, Jerusalem,Let my blood be forgotten.I shall touch your forehead,Forget my own,My voice changeFor the second and last timeTo the most terrible of voices --Or silence. " Yehuda Amichai
May the transition that meets Israel tomorrow be mesured by tranquility and be met with peace for all people in the State of Israel.
15 Comments:
Please note that I have changed my icon once again. This is one I truly love, and in honor of all in Israel.
WRONG DOUG Jerusalem is ours!!!!
when the arabs had east jerusalem they burned all of the jewish holy sites and dumped garbage at the kotel.
Regret to say the arabs don't see this as a step to peace they see it as a victory.
Doug, you don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about. Jerusalem be an international capital? What other country puts up with that? I know. D.C. should be the capital run by both Americans and Native Americans. I mean, we killed almost an entire race of people to get it. I think the oh-so-moral Americans should give a piece back. Let the UN run things? Yeah, b/c they've done such a great job of doing that in the past. The UN's proposal in '47 was that it would be controlled by whichever body held the majority of the city. That has, as always, been the JEWS, except for when the Jews were starved and killed out by the Arabs in '48. Learn your Nakba history before you make erronious suggestions.
Jerusalem has never been the capital of any other nation except for Israel. Just like America was back in the "day", to the victor goes the spoils. Israel won Jerusalem fair and square. It belongs to us and has been the center of our existence for about 5,000 years now. Let's see. There's no such thing as a Palestinian. There's never been a Palestinian state. The "Palestinians" have maybe been living in Jerusalem, to any extent, for no more than 100-300 years, at the most. So, yeah, they should get it. No doubt.
Let's see something else. Israel is the only country in the world that is the center of religious existence and creation. Therefore, separating religion from the state is moot and completely pointless. Israel was also the center for modern civilization for thousands of years. So, that is pointless to say. To say that the only democracy in the Middle East is "Old World" is one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard from. The PA is run by a bunch of terrorists and tyranists, and you're going to lecture us on being in the "Old World". We are the only ones who tried to accomplish peace through compromise. And, what have we gotten in return? Nothing but dead women, men, children, infants, soldiers, and mamed civilins. They don't want Jerusalem for peace. They want it as the last step of destruction of the Jewish State. Disengagement is not being done for peace. If it was, it would have been a bilateral deal. It's for miltary strategic control.
You guys may think Yochanan is "far right", but he couldn't be more in touch with reality. You're the one with your head in the sand. I just think you dont like to hear the cold hard truth. You see Hebrew School as indoctrination? This has nothing to do with your horrifying views of Jewish education but with historical fact. There is no nostalagia involved. If there were, we would have kicked the Arabs and Pals out of the Dome of The Rock, ripped apart the mosque, and turned it back into the proper Temple Mount. We would have killed every Pal living in Chevron. But, we haven't.
Oh Yes, we're such barbaric "old worlders", who are killing innocent people to keep our sweet nostalgia and Hebrew school indoctrination intact.
Keep it up Yoch. It's up to us to actually tell the truth. It seems no-one else is going to.
-OC
Spirited disagreement and discussion are welcome here anytime.
It is not helpful, nor nice, however, to insult others or make negative comments just because another person does not agree with what you have to say.
Please try to engage in some civility towards one another even if you disagree.
Israel today has enough problems.
Let us focus on solutions.
from an Israeli point of view I am a centerist. I know because I lived in Jerusalem. I accept Sharons reasons for leaving Gaza I only wish he were getting peace for it. Generally I don't believe I should be telling Israeli what to do since I safely live in Chicago and they live under the guns and bombs of the racist terrorists.
But on Jerusalem I have the right to speak as Jerusalem belongs to Kal Yisroel not just Israeli.
We already tried international control when the brits controlled Jerusalem Jews were not allowed to freely worship at the kotel we were not allowed to blow the shofar on Yom Kipper because the british were worried it would offend the racist arabs. The sound of the rams horn would cause them to riot.
We also remember that the arabs had control of the Kotel between 48 and 67 and during that period jews were not allowed to even go there. Even worse the arabs practiced ethinic cleaning and kick all the jews out of the jewish qt. and then burned ALL OF THE JEWISH HOLY SITES!!!!!!!
Doug you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
If I forget thee, Jerusalem
well doug you have forgoten her!!!
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
yochanan,
please discontinue posting information on my blog that has little, if anything to do with the post. I find it disrespectful and unnecessary.
I am going to send you an email asking you to please be more respectful to me. This post is not about facists or Nazis. Please, please, be respectful.
I have deleted your last two posts as being simply non-responsive to the post at hand.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yochanan,
Please stop posting on my blog.
I take a beautiful poem, "If I forget thee, Jerusalem, and you cloud it up with your same retrick over and over again about Nazis, facists, Bush.
I am frankly tired of you and your inability to be respectful of others.
You are right: enough is enough!!
please delete all of my posts as you really don't want a free exchange of ideas.
OK, first of all, every sovereign country has the right to decide their capital, and Jerusalem has always been the capital of the STATE OF ISRAEL. That is why the Pals want it. Not because they believe it belongs to them more than us but b/c they want it when they're marching to Jerusalem on the blood that flows from every Jew's dead body. Those are there words, not mine. And, you may think that nobody's pushing us into the sea, but they're damn well trying. The only way to stop it from happening is to fight it at its source. We didn't start this whole mess, but we're damn well going to finish it. Yes, even at times during the Ottoman Empire, there was a Jewish majority. That is what led to massacres and pogroms in Jerusalem, Chevron, and other such places. OK, the truth is that is has NOTHING to do with having a coexistant capital. Nothing. But, if you don't want to see the truth, that's your problem. It has nothing to do with good acts vs bad acts to have the capital belong to one or the other. It is the fact that Jerusalem was conquered by Israel in all matters of just warfare. It belongs to the State of Israel now. Therefore, we have every right to declare it as our capital. We own Jerusalem as much as any other country own any of its cities or capitals. We captured it, fair and square. No other country puts up with these suggestions. Why don't you go suggest to the people of Ireland that they and the UK should agree that their capital should be internationally owned. I mean, they've been fighting over it for hundreds of years also. Give me a freakin' break. Everyone wants good ole' Israel to make all the sacrifices that they wouldn't dare ask any other sovereign nation to do. It's rediculous as it is sad and pathetic.
There has never, and I repeat NEVER been a sovereign nation of Palestine. It has been owned by the Jewish nation, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Ottoman, and British empires. There has NEVER been an independant sovereign nation of Palestine. There has and IS a sovereign nation of Israel. That is why the only definition of a Pal nationalism is a state of mind. If you define yourself as Pal, then you're Palestinian. So, yes, it's real. IN YOUR HEAD. Not in reality.
Umm...a Jew has a very basic definition. If your mom's Jewish, then you're Jewish. So, yeah, Jews are the same now as they were back when it all started. If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. What you keep is a different story. I define people by their "blood" and their actions. Jewish is Jewish. It doesn't matter how much inter-marriage or whatever occurs. I'm just as Jewish as the tribe in Ethiopia that's been separated from civilization for thousands of years. May they keep more to the original bible than me? Perhaps. But, we're both the same amount of Jewish. You're sounding like the Black Hebrews there. "History sometimes needs to be trenscended". Don't exactly know what you mean by that. You know what? I think you should read "The Abandonment of the Jews", "While 6 million died", and "Denying The Holocaust". I think you might gain some understanding how stupid that statement sounds.
Let me rephrase my statement. Israel is the center of all MONO-theistic religions. I didn't say Jerusalem. I specifically said Israel. "Post enlightenment?" Are you kidding me with this stuff? Umm... my religion doesn't encourage genocide. I dont know where you got that from. The Pal want to genocide us out of the country. You're using this supposed "post enlightenment" to sit on some lofty position and judge something that you don't want to see as being true and obviously don't understand. There are people who want to KILL and DESTROY us. That's the basic "enlightened" truth.
"Now we can try to organize this movement of peoples and throw off the chains of the Old World (wasn't this part of the idea of America?) and its hopelessly tangled history of grudges." When you use the word, "we", you mean more than just you.
You need to get this through your head, doug: ISRAEL WANTS PEACE. WE HAVE DIED TRYING TO ACHIEVE IT. WE HAVE GIVEN UP LAND THAT BELONGED TO A SOVEREIGN NATION TO ACHIEVE IT. WE GOT NOTHING BUT MORE BLOOD SHED AND DEAD BODIES. YOU ARE DEALING WITH A PEOPLE THAT DO NOT WANT PEACE. THEY WANT TO DESTROY EVERY JEW LIVING ON THIS LAND AND ERADICATE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
Finally, go ahead and mock my religion as indoctrination and loftilly laugh at people who truly believe in it and follow it, as people who are not "enlightened". I am a religious Jew. Yet, somehow, I am a MA student, in one of the most prestigious Universities. I've learned science, law, and physics. Somehow, I guess I'm just too stupid and brain washed, I haven't gotten "enlightened" enough to stop being a religious Jew. It's really pathetic how you think you can judge people b/c of some sad experiences you've had. It seems your Jewish education was some-what lacking. If you knew what it really was all about, you'd understand that Judaism is very logical and rational. Recommended reading would be MIT and NASA scientist, Dr Geral Schroeder's "Genesis and the Big Bang" and "The Science of God" to start. But, you might be too narrow minded at this point to give it a shot. I am not some stupid "ultra-rightest religious fanady", as you called us. It's just so sad that you define anyone who's religious as being so.
-OC
O.C. says:
ISRAEL WANTS PEACE. WE HAVE DIED TRYING TO ACHIEVE IT. WE HAVE GIVEN UP LAND THAT BELONGED TO A SOVEREIGN NATION TO ACHIEVE IT. WE GOT NOTHING BUT MORE BLOOD SHED AND DEAD BODIES. YOU ARE DEALING WITH A PEOPLE THAT DO NOT WANT PEACE. THEY WANT TO DESTROY EVERY JEW LIVING ON THIS LAND AND ERADICATE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
I agree with you, O.C. It is a well known fact that Jews have been kicked out of every country they have occupied, with only a few exceptions, for the last 2000 years. This was the reason the State of Israel was created, in reponse to the horrors of the Holocaust so that Jews could have a safehaven to go, if God forbid, such horrors, were to ever happen again.
May it be God's will to bring peace to Jerusalem....
Barb, you are sooo right.
-OC
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